Latent Effect items, important info!

[Vanstrider]

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=108378006555021999&num=24



Yeah, i'm so digging that.

[Blynddivinity]

well i went back and read the other thread from someone who said "this is the thread that started it..." and someone said he gained an effect when he WAS a thf or had thf subbed...now...if its only when you have a certain subjob for said latent effects, it makes it more understandable...but not that much better...i think one of the only times those items would be useful is for PLD/WAR giving the +VIT while WAR is subbed...or the storetp+1 while SAM is subbed for a DRG/SAM...or i guess WAR/SAM...but most often ppl are gonna go WAR/NIN or WAR/MNK or something to that extent...but still...thats an awesome thread...and a sweet find...gj wayne ^^

[Laucian]

Most of those Latent Effects aren't even that great.

The bonuses to WAR subbed suck. I wish more triggers were unlocked though.

[Vanstrider]

Here's the ones i think are useful, keep in mind these are for lvl 30 jobs.

Healer's Earring
Latent Effect: Enmity-1
Latent Effect Trigger: Must have WHM as sub-job
Info from: Infered from Trigger for Pilferer's Earring
-For those nuke happy blms with whm sub
___________________________________

Genin Earring
Latent Effect: AGI+5
Latent Effect Trigger: Must have NIN as sub-job
Info from: Infered from Trigger for Pilferer's Earring
- for Ranger/nin, Agi is very important for rangers, and this is better than the current standard +3 agi earring most rangers wear until lvl 75


_______________________________
Wizzard's Earring
Latent Effect: Elemental Magic Skill+5
Latent Effect Trigger: Must have BLM as sub-job
Info from: Infered from Trigger for Pilferer's Earring
- Rdm's with blm sub, great earring up til lvl 75 ^^
________________________________
Beater's Earring
Latent Effect: Ranged Accuracy+3
Latent Effect Trigger: Must have RNG as sub-job
Info from: Infered from Trigger for Pilferer's Earring
- I wanted to try Samurai/ranger, this makes me want to try it more.
_______________________________

Mercenary's Earring
Latent Effect: VIT+2
Latent Effect Trigger: Must have WAR as sub-job
Info from: Infered from Trigger for Pilferer's Earring

- For pld/war since theres very few +def earrings.
_________________________________
Warlock's Earring
Latent Effect: MP recovered while healing+1
Latent Effect Trigger: Must have RDM as sub-job
Info from: Confirmed by Mindlessbb
- Blm.rdms or Whm/rdms, just put these on when you rest, then go back to your usual earrings.
____________________________________


------------------belts--------------------------
Sarashi
Latent Effect: Enhances "Dual Wield" effect
Latent Effect Trigger: Must have NIN as sub-job
Info from: Infered from Shield Belt
- For war/nins with dual axes... or Thf/nins with swords/daggers
___________________________________________
Avatar Belt
Latent Effect: Avatar Perpetuation cost-2
Latent Effect Trigger: Must have SNM as sub-job
Info from: Infered from Shield Belt
- For rdm or whm/smn... You could have carbuncle out all the time at no mp cost. (though it's argued that a half level carbuncle would do no damage, but it would be fun to have a pet.)
______________________________________
Katana Obi
Latent Effect: "Store TP"+1
Latent Effect Trigger: Must have SAM as sub-job
Info from: Infered from Shield Belt
- Duh.



While they might not be uber gear, for lvl 30 stuff it seems pretty effective if you choose wisely.
Anyways, i just thought this was a good piece of info for anyone with a lvl 30 job looking for something special...
^^y

[You're such a downer laucian.]

[Laucian]

The only good one is Genin Earring, Wizard Earring, Mercenary Earring and Katana Obi. All others are pretty much crap.

Who subs RDM anyways? :whacked:

-1 Enmity does almost nothing. Unless you switch gear all the time, I think a SAM/RNG would prefer +Attack items. Avatar Belt would be a waste of money. And again, just about no one subs RDM. Mainly because RDM just isn't a good subjob.

Maybe I am a 'downer', or you're just too optimistic! :mad:

[Vanstrider]

I know lots of people who sub rdms ><

Fast cast is nice.

Bards and blms both do it, so nuh=P
Gives blms higher int than whm. [ The only reason to sub whm is to remove status ailments. Most JPs i've partied with, if the whm has erase, will change their subjob.]

And no, samurai/rng would NEED + ranged accuracy items if they are going to make use of the rng sub. Samurai have the 2nd best archery rating, but it's still only a C+.

[Blynddivinity]

yeah i agree with wayne mostly...tho subbing RNG seems to be an odd play...i guess if you solo...but i dunno...thats not really a question of the items than a question of what makes a good sub for SAM...i've heard of NIN/RNG and RNG/NIN or whatever...but i mean...are either of those good in PT...and SAM/RNG...is that for PT also? i guess if there is a dedicated tank it doesnt really matter WHAT your combo is...but i guess i just figured that most ppl assume that for DMG dealing classes like NIN and SAM that WAR is the best sub...i dunno...i love experimental stuff...just never really thought about SAM/RNG...oh and yeah....RDM is a sweet *** sub ^^;...i really would love to be a BLM...but i dont want to sub WHM...if i had any WHM i would go WHM/SMN or SMN/WHM...but yeah...BLM/RDM would be awesome...*wink wink* linds =pp ...anyways...i'm still confused on some of the items...and i mean...i know at 30 there arent TOO many things that could really help out the combo someone might have......and subbing NIN...the belt with the enhancing the dual wield....does it help that much? cuz some guy made a post about how it didnt really help much at all...and i'd really love to be WAR/NIN...but now i'm doubting it...and wondering if WAR/MNK is the best way to go....anyways...i rambled enough considering i dont have as much insight into the uberness of jobs and job combos =)...

[Vanstrider]

SAM/RNG is potentially viable.
Samurais get Sidewinder before lvl 60 (If they sub rng, only way to get bow WS) because samurai have 2nd best archery skill. While you won't be as accurate and do as much damage as a full blown rng, it would still be sweet to see someone bust out 2 sidewinders with meditate. [I'm assuming each would do 600+ damage if you had decent +rng acc gear, since your average rng sidewinder does 1000ish damage]

By the time you would use this combo neth, you always have a dedicated tank. After lvl 33ish people start making parties that actually work and the people have roles ^^. You really shouldn't do War/nin for dual wield, but instead for utsusemi. Dual wield is a bonus for the few levels you'll be using 1 handed axes, but Great axe's are warriors bread n buttah. Each level of Dual wield decreases weapon delay by 5%, so just look at it as a 5% haste belt (while dual wielding).
:dance: :dance: :dance:

[Laucian]

Blynd: Paragraphs and periods can be your best friends! Say "NO" to elipses!

Fast Cast is nice, but you also learn the half-level spells a lot slower with RDM as subjob.

samurai/rng would NEED + ranged accuracy items

So if its a C+ rating, wouldn't that mean damage would be below average? Might as well use WAR SJ and get +Attack +Accuracy items and do more damage. Besides, we all know SAM isn't the strongest hitting job if their accuracy blows. Weapon Skills need high accuracy to do good damage. I would sub THF or WAR if I was SAM.

[Bakslash]

The warrior class is a very difficult class to play because a warrior must be extremely flexible. Warriors are expected to be the weapons master, so keeping all the different weapons level up-to-par is difficult and time consuming. Just as they are expected to the master of weapons, they are also expected to be the master of subjobs. War/NIN is looked upon to be tanks, War/SAM is called for when the WAR's skill is needed often (i.e. Great Axe to lower evasion and def), WAR/THF for Trick/Sneak with others for damage, etc. Ultimately, there's always one class that is a specialist (i.e. PLD for tanking) so to have the greatest success is to be able to adjust to what ever the party needs.

Subbing MNK at lower level is great since it increases your HP and boost can let a WAR build up his attack. At a higher level, parties are looking for more specific skills to complement the party.

[Sarizaddi]

Still waiting to see an idea that was meant for me. Latent Effect: K.O. Status.

Then again, it really wouldn't be for me, because I have no problem going from yellow HP to K.O. Status. It would be more for all of you peoples that wanna be like me ^^

[Vanstrider]

So if its a C+ rating, wouldn't that mean damage would be below average? Might as well use WAR SJ and get +Attack +Accuracy items and do more damage. Besides, we all know SAM isn't the strongest hitting job if their accuracy blows. Weapon Skills need high accuracy to do good damage. I would sub THF or WAR if I was SAM.

First off, this isn't a writing skillz contast, sew we shouldn't ned to wory abut it, ok?

Second, C+ rating doesnt mean just damage. Only attack and acc. Here's how I believe (along with lots of others) damage works. You take weapon damage, add in 1/2 your STR, and you get your max amount of damage possible per hit, i'm not sure how minimum works yet, but I'm pretty sure STR effects max/min. Raising attack effects your average amount of damage done. That C+ rating can be enhanced to an A quite easily by raising ranged attack and ranged acc. So it's very possibly to see a samurai doing close to a rangers damage with bows. I had a JP PLD use a spear in Kuftal once, PLDs have an E in spear, but he was loaded with nice gear and was doing similar damage to a DRG with spear. [Except when Defender was on, he was a taru pld so he used it often ><]
And it's not below average if the average class has a D in archery. You're smarter than that lauc, come up with something better ^^

[Bakslash]

The values that effects damage are STR, ATK, opponents VIT, opponents of DEF and weapon DMG. Some theories also include the level of your weapon's skill. I'm not sure if the rating of the weapon impacts the damage or if it is simply the WS value (i.e. you can't do as much damage with C+ since you can't get as high a WS value).


(side note)

It is not 2 Dex = 1 Accuracy. The actual relation is unknown.

[Vanstrider]

Well, bak, perhaps you can try this for us if you ever feel the need to level yet another sub ^^

[Bakslash]

I have a hard enough time verifying the equations for TP calculations!

The information I got for damange was from an interview with Square (translation at: http://ffxi.crgaming.com/interviews/viewinterview.asp?Id=209).

Also, someone has experimented with damage calculation with relations to THFs:

http://www.moonlight.gr.jp/~el/ffxi/backstub.html.en

[Laucian]

First off, this isn't a writing skillz contast, sew we shouldn't ned to wory abut it, ok?

I cant read a big block of text with no sentences without straining my eyes.

THUS I AM THOROUGHLY WORRIED.

Second, C+ rating doesnt mean just damage. Only attack and acc.

Attack: Attack raises your standard damage variances and increases the average damage given. [Taken from Final Fantasy Realm]

The C+ rating basically determines each skill cap on a certain weapon for a certain job. Skill level in a weapon determines Attack and Accuracy. The higher the skill, the higher the Attack, the higher chance of hitting, the higher average damage you do. You say it doesn't mean just damage... then say only Attack and Accuracy, which is the same thing. Because the matter at hand was damage, I didn't mention Accuracy, seeing how it's common knowledge to everyone now that skill level in a weapon also includes the rate of connecting with the certain weapon.

For example, my THF uses H2H as his main weapon, (for now) but I also raise Dagger to get it capped. At a certain level, my Daggers skill cap may be 10-15 levels higher than my capped H2H level.

C'mon Van, you're smarter than this, come up with something better. ^^

[Vanstrider]

I cant read a big block of text with no sentences without straining my eyes.

THUS I AM THOROUGHLY WORRIED.


The C+ rating basically determines each skill cap on a certain weapon for a certain job. Skill level in a weapon determines Attack and Accuracy. The higher the skill, the higher the Attack, the higher chance of hitting, the higher average damage you do. You say it doesn't mean just damage... then say only Attack and Accuracy, which is the same thing. Because the matter at hand was damage, I didn't mention Accuracy, seeing how it's common knowledge to everyone now that skill level in a weapon also includes the rate of connecting with the certain weapon.

For example, my THF uses H2H as his main weapon, (for now) but I also raise Dagger to get it capped. At a certain level, my Daggers skill cap may be 10-15 levels higher than my capped H2H level.

C'mon Van, you're smarter than me, come up with something better. ^^


Get glasses=P

" You say it doesn't mean just damage... then say only Attack and Accuracy, which is the same thing." False. What i meant, is that skill rating isn't the only thing that effects damage. Weapon damage is just as important as attack when it comes damage you do. Try again.
"Attack: Attack raises your standard damage variances and increases the average damage given. [Taken from Final Fantasy Realm]"< They either mean within the realm of weapon damage+str, or this is wrong. As a bard, I get to play with my attack a LOT. Against too weaks, i can't go beyond weapon damage + str unless I critical, even if i use 2 minuets (roughly adding near 100 attack) it wont go beyond that.
So, let's call sam/rng a job that requires a brd in the party.. It's currently debatable that minuet effects ranged and regular attack. Some NA's on various ranger boards suspect this, and i know JPs correct my casting order if i get sloppy so the rng has minuet. Slap a prelude on the samurai, and his acc will be similar to your avg ranger. So, now you would have someone who does good melee damage (You don't have to sacrifice much melee acc since things like Sniper rings, and most neck pieces work for both ranged and melee acc), and good ranged damage. A barrage every now and then, maybe a few sidewinders, and a sam/rng can easily outdamage a samurai/war. I'm not saying use this sub to purely replace a ranger, i'd even recommend not using ranged attacks except for pulling (unless you can time it between GK hits, and that would be dank).


And for the killshot. Your thf uses H2H as main. I'm assuming because it's capable of more damage than dagger. Thf has an E in H2H. At lvl 20 your H2H will be 12 less skill points than dagger (assuming both are capped). So, if skill points are so important, why arent you using dagger?
At Lv 61, the difference between a C+ and A-(what rng have in archery) is only 15 skill points. And since rngs don't get any ranged attack up passive abilities, you're only at a -15 base ranged attack disadvantage. IMO, 15 ranged attack isn't enough to make samurai suck with bow damage. After lv 70, this starts to increase more. While bards get stronger ranged acc song at lv 71, this sub may not be that great end game. Would definately be something to look at from 60-70 though.

While i believe peoples subs should best suit their party, and sam/war (Trick female dog) and sam/thf (For SATA) might be better in some parties. But for a pure damage dealing samurai, i believe rng sub is the most capable.

[Blynddivinity]

i have no idea what either of you are talking about anymore....variables and percentages and wait...isnt a variable the same as a percentage...wait...i didnt want to take any more math classes after high school....

Oh, crap! I'm not using proper grammer. I might fail the test and not graduate.


AAAAH i'm having a nightmare....moooommmmyyyyy!!!! /cry



:clrdontsp :clrcrying :clrdontsp :slidinggl :longjaw: :clubsplit

[Eilyndel]

K, read these posts and I liking the discussion cause this is the kind of stuff that, when understood, can give a player an edge when equipping their characters. Just to add my own 2cp in this, from what I understand, the rankings for weapons per job affect skill caps per lvl. Ie, for my dragoon, since my polearm is A+, it has a higher cap per lvl than, let's say I'd have using a club. So at lvl 36 my polearm is around 112, while others are more around 105 I'd figure. Your skill lvl with your weapon is directly related to your atk value, when your weapon skill increases, so does your attack. Now, I have no idea on how much these skills affect max or average dmg or anything atm, that's what alot of people are trying to figure out, but I figure its affect on max dmg is not too huge. I mean, when I use berserk I don't see my max hits getting much bigger, but I beleive that my average dmg per hit increases, so my dps increases, although I haven't parsed it or anything.

From what Van said as a possible equation:
"You take weapon damage, add in 1/2 your STR, and you get your max amount of damage possible per hit"

I don't think this is entirely accurate, since my weapon has a base dmg of 51, and my strength is around 50, that would mean I'd hit around 75 as my max. Instead, I hit (against NW's mind you) more around 115-125 on an average hit. That's even more than if I used wpn dmg+ full str, so I think there's definitely some other factors that play a big role, most likey the mobs def, vit and such.

Lastly, if anyone knows a place to get a good parser so I can start fiddling with this stuff I'd greatly appreciate it :worship:

[Blynddivinity]

whats a parser? :hmmm: :clrkarate :antirelli

[Juell]

Eil.. Dulche has a good parser program. Talk to him :getsmashe

[Laucian]

And for the killshot. Your thf uses H2H as main. I'm assuming because it's capable of more damage than dagger. Thf has an E in H2H. At lvl 20 your H2H will be 12 less skill points than dagger (assuming both are capped). So, if skill points are so important, why arent you using dagger?
At Lv 61, the difference between a C+ and A-(what rng have in archery) is only 15 skill points. And since rngs don't get any ranged attack up passive abilities, you're only at a -15 base ranged attack disadvantage. IMO, 15 ranged attack isn't enough to make samurai suck with bow damage. After lv 70, this starts to increase more. While bards get stronger ranged acc song at lv 71, this sub may not be that great end game. Would definately be something to look at from 60-70 though.

I use H2H for the Weapon Skill. I think its common knowledge that THF normal damage with a weapon is low. Combo has 3 hits, making it a lot stronger with Sneak Attack. Dagger doesn't have a good weapon skill until Viper Bite. And I think we all know that H2H weapons have better damage than Dagger, so I'll be doing a bit more damage with H2H. Although I will miss a lot more.

Blynd: Witty is not your thing. Stop while you're behind.

[Vanstrider]

I use H2H for the Weapon Skill. I think its common knowledge that THF normal damage with a weapon is low. Combo has 3 hits, making it a lot stronger with Sneak Attack. Dagger doesn't have a good weapon skill until Viper Bite. And I think we all know that H2H weapons have better damage than Dagger, so I'll be doing a bit more damage with H2H. Although I will miss a lot more.

Blynd: Witty is not your thing. Stop while you're behind.
What i've been saying all along. Sidewinder is a damaging WS, a lot moreso than most samurai WS. Use it for that and barrage. [ I could also argue that bow+arrow does a lot more damage than GK, using your argument against you, but i think we're done here ^^]

Also, what's with the hostility. Blynd's done nothing personally against you and you keep attacking his grammar/wittyness. There's an intellectual fallacy called Ad Hominem, i suggest you look it up ^^

[Sarizaddi]

From what I've seen, skill level does impact damage, as can be verified trhough skilling up weapons you currently have no skill in. Assuming X damage on a creature and you level up skill only, with no changes in weapon, level, stats, or any other comtributing factors, returning back to that same creature at a later point with a higher skill, you will now do more damage. But Vanstrider is correct, that the damage seems mostly insignificant, instead skill ability adding more to accuracy than anything else. However, I will say this, when using range attacks, though a measley 15 points may not mean anything to damage, 15 points can and DOES make a considerable difference with accuracy. I see it most evident in Range Attacks, but in general the accuracy differences can be seen regardless of weapon. In addition, Rangers gain Accuracy job trait bonuses that are the major play in difference between our strength with range attacks from others, but in higher levels of any class, any job can start qualifying for these accuracy bonuses if they were to have Ranger as a subjob. I believe the first Accuracy Bonus for ranger occurs at level 5 or 10, one or the other, so once you have a job level for it to make a difference, it'll already be there if you do sub ranger. However, it's hard to qualify for comparative damage to Rangers for many other reasons. The job itself has the highest Agility modifiers, Accuracy Bonus Traits, Range Attack Weapon Skills, Quick Shot all to begin with, but later on Barrage is a masterful ability, and the Skill Specialization in range Attacks allows for the best Weapon Skills that aren't available to other classes even if the Ranger is subbed.

So in general what I'm saying is, you are both right in a sense, but though SAM/RGR sounds interesting, don't look for it to compare to RGR as a main class.

[Blynddivinity]

Blynd: Witty is not your thing. Stop while you're behind.

hmmmm....see, i was just making a stupid little joke post...i wasnt trying to come off as an intelligent person (though i dont think i'm stupid) i was just trying to say that i was totally confused...i mean, i really dont understand THAT much about the intricacies of the game beyond basic stats and as far as formulas go for what constitutes max damage or max accuracy or all that stuff...i have no idea...i'd go insane trying to figure all that out...but umm...anyway...i wasnt trying to put anyone down with my little post with the new emotes or whatever...just trying to say "hey i'm confused...so i'm gonna be silly"...since thats what i do best

[Laucian]

I think you guys kind of took my comments too far. My original comment was just a little wit. But you [van] decided to go further with it and say: "First off, this isn't a writing skillz contast, sew we shouldn't ned to wory abut it, ok?" Which really had nothing to do with what I said, because I didn't complain about spelling. But it came off a lot more 'hostile' than my comment. Especially since you were defending someone else. I guess I just took it the wrong way. But my comment never meant to offend anyone. I just wanted to point out that it was hard for me to read.

I was never talking about your [Blynd] intelligence. In fact, I never read your post for the very reason stated already. Even your last post, I only skimmed through it. I have trouble reading a big block of text with no sentences. I lose my place, and I strain my eyes.

[Sarizaddi]

Before it begins, please no one start a flame up. No one needs to be defensive, we are just discussing stuffs some of others can't follow very well. We make jest and humor when we are confoosed, no one is being insulted.

In the meantime, the thread went all wacky. One second we're dicussing Latent effect, the next skill points as related to damage. I gotta say, me confoosed now too.

:clubsplit

[Bakslash]

Hmm, I thought you guys were just playing with each other.

[Melmeow]

What are you guys talking about (^^)a

[Vanstrider]

What are you guys talking about (^^)a
The fish that crossed the road ^^;

[Blynddivinity]

yeah things got all wacky...i think its mostly because...well...we all joke differently...i am sarcastic like 90% of the time...even when i'm being pseudo serious about stuff...but yeah...when we dont know each other IRL and we talk the way we do normally with friends...it comes out differently in text and is interpureted(sp) a lot differently than how we meant it...i was never offended or upset...it just seemed like i was being critiqued on something i wasnt trying to do...if a chunk of text bothers your eyes Lau...i dunno, i'm sorry...but i'm not writin an essay ^^ just bloggin down my thoughts...anyways...yeah...about those latent effects eh? lol has anyone found out anything new??? :shocked: :pied: :teaser:

[Blynddivinity]

hahaha so i guess your ": pied :" emote didnt really work that well ^^ lol FIX IT NOW SARI *whoopa* (i was quoting chandler when he made the whip noise)....yeah...*whoopa*...